Stéphane Bourgoin is Discredited, But His Ed Kemper Interview Has Value

Stéphane Bourgoin has now been branded a "serial liar" by the media, much like George Metesky is forever known as the "mad bomber." He now acknowledges that he never had someone named "Eileen" as a partner. Eileen was inspired by Susan Bickrest, a woman he says he met a few times, and who was slain by serial killer Gerald Stano. He's also inflated his credentials, saying "I met 77 serial killers." In reality, that number is smaller. As he put it: “My lies have weighed me down,” and “It’s a stupid thing that I acknowledge.”

While all this makes him discredited as an expert, I still recognize and understand his work can have some value, with the caveat that not every square inch of it is trustworthy. For a great example of this, you might want to check out Stéphane Bourgoin's interview with serial killer Ed Kemper. Though Kemper does most of the talking, there is a sense that Bourgoin does have some skill as an interviewer. At the very least, Kemper seems to be comfortable and disarmed (literally and metaphorically) while speaking to him.

Granted, it helps that Kemper might be the most honest and trustworthy of serial killer subjects, even if you wouldn't let him take your daughter to the prom (so to speak). Many interesting things are revealed about Ed Kemper by Bourgoin's interview, and some of them might have been totally missed had the interview not occurred.

For example, in the footage I've seen, Kemper begins by saying that society should admit that jailers who kill inmates are also serial killers. While this might be seen as a cheap shot at the prison establishment by an inmate, it is a proven phenomenon that, at times, inmates are tortured and killed by guards. A 2014 Huffington Post article mentions a startling example: "Darren Rainey, a mentally ill man serving a two-year prison sentence for a non-violent crime of cocaine possession, defecated in his cell and refused to clean it up. In response, guards allegedly forced Rainey to stand in a tiny shower cell under scalding hot water for almost two hours. Fellow inmates reported that Rainey screamed in agony until his skin literally separated from his body. Rainey was found lifeless in the shower stall — apparently boiled to death at the hands of his guards."

In other words, Kemper (and, by logical extension, Stéphane Bourgoin) prompt us to examine these issues, should we have the intelligence and the guts.

Kemper's Intelligence

Bourgoin's interview also reminds us why Kemper is considered intelligent. He is very much a self-aware man, even more than other intelligent killers. For example, he indicates that, in discussing how he should be treated, "any answer other than the death penalty would sound self-serving." He also reminds us that, despite his terrible crimes, his life has mundane frustrations. He says he once had to do an interview all over again because a tape recorder wasn't working.

Of course, Kemper does talk about his dark side, which Stéphane Bourgoin navigates through with surprising ease. Kemper talks about his suicide attempts with a pen, and how he's surprised the pun-loving media never referred to it as "the pen being mightier than the sword."

He also mentions a nurse who recognized both his evil and his humanity, the emptiness in his life, his parent's divorce, his alcoholic mother who regularly called him stupid (despite clear signs of his being intelligent), and slapped him on the head. Basically, Kemper's lack of faith in himself and his interactions seem like a substantial part of what led him down the darkened path. Of course, it probably didn't help that his mom kept him in the basement for a while, chiding him for being afraid of the dark.

Kemper Challenges His Own Mythology

There are some odd, unexpected, refreshing moments in Bourgoin's interview. For example, he downplays the oft-cited fact that he and his siblings played a "gas chamber" game as kids. In fact, let's be honest: Plenty of youngsters might do weird things like that and not become serial killers. In fact, some children even hurt animals without becoming maniacs later in life. Similarly, he notes that he only cut the hands off his sister's Barbie doll after she smashed his toy gun. Again, these are incidents that could happen in just about any household where children fight over toys.

Kemper is also aware of the ironies of his basic situation. For example, he mentions how he goes straight from therapy sessions back into prison, which he calls "a violent medium." In a way, how could one not see the fallacy involved in that? On the one hand, you're supposed to become a better, more upstanding, and merciful person, yet you're moments later thrown into a place that's designed to be hellish.

Kemper also suggests that no one will take him seriously if he expresses positive emotions, no matter how sincere he is, due to his reputation as a cold-blooded killer. Yet again, he's very intuitive and philosophical in the interview. And, oddly enough, it doesn't seem like he's just trying to impress people with his brains. It actually seems like he's just being himself, or whatever self is brought out by Bourgoin's minimalist interview technique (which is one of the best kinds).

The Brighter Side of Edmund Kemper(?)...Then Darkness Again

In Stéphane Bourgoin's interview, Kemper tells us that he won volunteer of the year award during his prison stay. He had apparently been helping handicapped inmates. One only wonders what he might have been like in a different life. Are there circumstances where he wouldn't have become a murderer? Possibly. Kemper regularly suggests he was either terrified of his mother or simply hated her. He rebelled against her because she hit him, and stole small amounts of money. He visited his dad in LA. Though Kemper seemed to prefer his father, the time away apparently was not enough.

Surprisingly, Kemper also felt a lack of confidence due to his height (6 foot 9, which goes against stereotypes (usually shorter men are supposed to lack confidence). He tells Bourgoin he became paranoid because shorter people stare at him. His frustrations led to hatred, which gradually led to violent fantasies that evolved into murders. He admits that he was afraid of physical relationships early on (indicating possible trust issues). He also says that, when he was younger, he went to lay in traffic to flirt with death. Eventually, he would do more than flirt with it, which is how we know him today.

Little Herbie

Kemper also discusses time spent behind bars with fellow serial killer Herbert Mullin. These moments are oddly funny, with Kemper even calling him "Little Herbie." Little Herbie was not popular among the inmates, but Ed bought him Planters peanuts to break the ice. He also remarks that Mullin's hand reminded him of a monkey paw (one wonders if Mullin heard such remarks from Kemper himself). He apparently gave him peanuts when he was good, threw water at him when he was bad.

In Ed's mind, this was a form of conditioning, and he discusses it with both humor an almost scientific tone. They had a few things in common, too. Kemper says that, as kids, they both target practiced with bottles and cans, pretending they were shooting people. Also, according to Kemper, Mullin's grandmother didn't let him go out. While Mullin didn't kill his grandparents as Kemper had, they still had enough in common.

Should Stéphane Bourgoin's Career Be Entirely Over?

Excusing deceit by saying "Everyone lies" seems like a slippery slope. However, there is some value to at least some of what Bourgoin has done, despite the blatantly deceitful things he's said. While the Edmund Kemper interview doesn't totally let Stéphane Bourgoin off the hook, it does prove that he qualifies as a mixed bag. Bourgoin is unlikely to regain his position as a trusted true crime author/interviewer, but one needn't be a perfect hero to still have value.

We shouldn't expect to find Bourgoin Burgers on the menu in his hometown, but I appreciate his delving into the nightmarish yet complex life and mind of Edmund Kemper. It was, apparently, quite an unfettered look, as it doesn't seem Kemper was crafting some fiction masterpiece, either. He comes across as honest, and he quite possibly was in the interview. Too bad he did all that murdering and raping. He might have been somebody.